Clod Buster Powertrain Options

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Halgar
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Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by Halgar » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:10 pm

Andymac will be compiling information on motor combinations and posting it here. Our intent for this thread is to make some much needed information readily available to those who need it. For the moment the thread will be locked down, however, it will soon be opened to discussion, as long as the discussions stay on topic and relevant, all others will be deleted or edited as necessary at Andy, Halgar, or 132NHAF's discretion.

So, please enjoy the information, be thinking up your questions as you see the topic unfold, and let's get this thing going. 8)
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:01 pm

part 1: Brushed esc's and motors:

This section is meant to help you choose a brushed motor and brushed esc esc combination for a clod buster, based on what I've learned though trial and error, and also what I've seen other's successfully run as well. I do not consider myself a brushed motor guru, nor do I even rebuild them. I know how to clean them and change the brushes, and set the timing to zero, that's it, no comm lathes here.

What I do know.....is how well I liked.....and didn't like.....all the combo's I tried.
And that......is what I'm here to share with all of you.
_________________________________________________________________

Most of us start with an MSC (mechanical speed contol), and a pair of silver cans.
This.......is boring once you get past the thrill of having a new clod.

So what can you do?.........well.......how much you wanna' spend?
If you don't already have one, get an esc! (electric speed controller).

The clod's msc is nostalgic, and that's pretty much it. About all you can do is upgrade your battery to a 7-cell stick pack. This will add a little extra "go" to your clod and some welcome speed, till your resistor pops..... :roll:
Some crazies have even run a 3S lipo on one of these, try that at your own risk.

For those of you just starting out:

I personally would reccomend a traxxas (waterproof) XL-5 esc.
But wait.......it's only got 2 motor leads and I need 4.....!?! :?
Gut your msc's motor wire's and snag the wires off of a titan 12T motor, and then solder it all up into a pair of Y-connections. Plug the Y-connections into the esc, and then run a pos (+) wire to each (stock) motor and then a neg (-) wire to each motor. Now your motors are wired in parellel, and you will get full power to both. Wiring in series would get you more runtime, but it would split the power between the 2 and really.....who does that anymore...... :|

When choosing an esc, you have to take the turn/wind # you have and divide by 2.
So, while an esc, like the XL-5, is rated for down to a 15 turn 540-sized motor, remember, you are running 2 motors (twice the load). Stock silver cans are 27t motors, so in theory, this is like running a single 13.5t motor, and you are below (think over) your turn-limit. However, the XL-5 has proven to be underrated (many brushed esc's are). I ran one in my stock clod for many......many packs with no issue's. BUT, just remember, you take your chances when doing stuff like this. I have pushed XL-5's MUCH farther than this, but I'm sure someone.....somewhere......has cooked one, doing far less, and will disagree. There are other esc's out there, including the tamiya dual motor one, so feel free to pick and choose.

A 2S lipo (new XL-5's have lipo cut-off) gives a lot of punch, but if your not ready for the switch to lipo, remove the spacer's in your stock battery cups and a 7-cell nimh pack slides right in. You may have to dremel the inside wall where the spacers attach, as there is a ridge there. 3000 mah traxxas power cells are a perfect fit, some of the larger mah/cell nimh might be a little too big though.

But I want more power and/or dual batteries, what are my options?
KEEP IN MIND, THAT NONE OF THESE HAVE LOW VOLTAGE PROTECTION FOR LIPO'S!! :shock:
You will need to install an alarm or be very good at knowing when to stop running you truck if you choose to run lipo's. I don't recomment running without a low voltage alarm like the novac smart-stop, or simular.
I don't use an LVA......but I'm crazy too...... :roll:
And if I toast my batteries, or my truck, I have no one but myself to blame.
.....so follow my example at your own risk.

*The newest version of the EVX-2 now has low voltage detection, and it works with 2S, 3S, and of course 4S (2Sx2).

anyways......
It used to be that the novac super rooster and the traxxas EVX were all the rage. They are good, nothing wrong with them. They both will handle 12-cells nimh (2x 6-cell packs), or a single 3S (3-cell) lipo. HPI makes one of these too BTW.
Then they upped the ante' to the novac Super Duty XR and the traxxas EVX-2. They both are good for 16.8v and low-turn motors. If using a single motor, the novac had no turn limit.

These days, pretty-much your go-to choice for new is the EVX-2. It's waterproof too. Some have longer wires than other's, so pay attention when shopping if you need longer wires and/or hate making extensions. You can run a single 3S lipo, or a pair of 2S lipo's (total of 4S), or you can run 14-cells nimh (2x7-cell). They just came out with an updated version of the EVX-2. This new version had LVD (low voltage detection) and it is indicated in the lower right corner, just above the on/off button. If it does not say "low voltage detection" in small letters in that area....it's not the newest version, so be carefull when shopping.

On to motors:

Running a clod means you need a reverse-rotation motor, or motors with nuetral timing. Running an advanced timed motor in the rear of a clod is a death sentence, because it was not made to run backwards for extended periods of time. They have less power in reverse. They will get hot, overheat, and die. The rear axle's motor runs in reverse when going forward, so keep that in mind when motor shopping.

I have run trinities, titans, venom's, kyosho's, and orions.
I had bad luck with the orions, but many other's have had great luck.
The rest were good for me.

They do/did make reverse rotation trinities, and if you can find a matched set in good shape, for a good price, buy them!
Best pair I ever had were x-stars (trinity). These were only 27t motors but they had advanced timing, which IS okay if the rear one is set up as reverse rotation.

The venom's are cheap and have a reputation for burning up easily. I have found if you break them in properly and set their timing right, they are fine.

Stock 540 silver cans also can be made fast with 3S or 4S power (see update in section 2), but they still will not be as fast as mod-motors. They can be a good alternative to 550's if clearance is an issue. They are also cheaper.

The titan (21T) monster 550's (longer can) are better suited for higher voltage, but don't make the rpm's of the smaller 540's, but... they don't get as hot either. They make a reverse-rotation titan monster 550 for use in the e-revo. This seems odd, as these monster 550's are supposed to have nuetral timing, but I have found in my personal expreience, that the reverse motor DOES run better on the rear axle than the normal rotation motor.

Some people run the HPI firebolt 15T 540 motors and some run HPI 550's.
The HPI firebolt is actually used in clod racing and HPI claims it has true neutral timing.

Update 3/27/14
After trying out a set of these HPI 15T firebolts, I call BS on their zero timing claim.
Rear motor fried in short order (on 3S) but the front one was fine.
Glad I got them cheap, won't be buying any more.


Back to the titans......The titan 12T looks just like the "monster" (21T), but it's not and has fixed advanced timing, so run at your own risk.

So, you wanna' go fast, but ain't ready for brushless?

Well, the easiest way to add some additional speed and a lot of wheelie-popping power to your clod.......assuming that by this point you are running a 4-link suspension with more room then the stock ladder bars......(although it has been done)....... is to get the running gear out of a traxxas full-size e-revo. This consists of an EVX-2, a normal rotation monster 550, and a reverse-rotation monster 550, and snagg the batts too if you can. The best part about doing it this way is that all this stuff is common, and readily available.

EVX-2/550's in action:

(this is deep powdery snow)
[youtube]D_wi_gE1KIo[/youtube]

EVX-2/550's (16.8v nimh)
[youtube]-bt-qt7-IUY[/youtube]





But what else?????????????
Well, matched mod-motor 540's or low-turn (should be same brand/turn) 540's can make a clod scoot!
If your motor's have adjustable timing, set it to zero, and do not believe those marks on the sticker. there will be a notch near one of the 2 screws holding the endbell on. Line that screw head up with that notch, there, now you are set at nuetral. Try to break-in you motors before running, or go easy on the first run. Also, remember when breaking them in on the bench, to make sure the rear motor is running reverse-rotation.

So...... how much juice can they take?

Well, 10v or less is the short answer. These motors were designed to run on a single battery pack. Running dual packs and or 3S lipo's is going to do 2 things. It'll make them really fast, and it'll make them burn up really fast.

I know this because I've pushed the limits........and found them..... :roll:
A singe nimh pack or 2S lipo, is what these motors will last on, but even then, they will wear out on you.

So what is 3S like?.....and how do I run just one 3S battery?

Take an old battery pig-tail, cut it off, and join the ends together (solder+and insulate). Now you have a jumper wire for the non-BEC plug. This is the plug without the red tag on it, or the one further away from the on-off button.

So, now that you made a jumper plug, and plugged it in......along with a healthy 3S lipo.....you did get a low-voltage-alarm right?
If you didn't.....don't blame me if your truck goes up in smoke/flame.

Yeah....yeah......get on with it......3S and mod-motor 540's....how is it?!?
This will make your clod fly!!! :shock: :D :twisted: :twisted:
High 20's to.... if your lucky, low 30's for speeds.
More importantly, you will have unreal punch when you hit that trigger. Your clod will easily be able to get big air on jumps, so you better be ready for it.
The fun-factor will be off the hook!

EVX-2/16t/3S:
[youtube]0xAsz6l2zAw[/youtube]
[youtube]XXIBlr8jJ0M[/youtube]

EVX-2/14t/3S
[youtube]n8kiE1TfI4Y[/youtube]



However.......

Understand, that it's not going to last. If you are careful, and give the truck a clool-off break every 10-minutes or so, the motors will last longer. Don't bog them down. 3S and 540 low-turn motors want to run!.......as in move along. If you want to trudge through mud or deep snow......go get some monster 550's, they will take that abuse all day long, the 540's will not.

I spent this past summer burning through every set of matched 540's I had. (and I'd been hoarding)
It was a blast! I had lots of awesome runs! Did a lot of crazy stuff, and broke a lot of stuff too......with all that power, it's gonna' happen.

You will have to:
-clean these regularly
-replace the brushes
-replace the whole motor(s).......lol...... :roll:

But, they will make you smile when they are running good.

Update 3/27/14
Or.... for more reliable speed and power, gear up those titan 21t 550's

4S + e-revo titans + 19t pinions = 26 mph
[youtube]HwIfJWaLCdU[/youtube]
[youtube]Ef6B29xMDBo[/youtube]
[youtube]I4q1AQpMF4w[/youtube]
Last edited by andymac0035 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:44 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:01 pm

part 2, brushless esc's with brushed motors:
_________________________________________________________________

Yes, you can use a single brushless esc to run 2 brushed motors.....as long as the esc is powerful enough to handle the amp-draw the motors ask of it, as well as the voltage you throw at it. This can be a good option as a lot of brushed esc's don't have low voltage detection for lipo batteries, but pretty much all brushless esc's do.
________________________________________________________________

I tried using a MMP esc wired up to a pair of good, but somewhat tired e-maxx motors. I had to oil the bushings on these after every run, or they would squeel, but there was lots of brush material left on them.

Speed was measured with a garmin nuvi GPS.

First I did a test using a pair of 2S lipo's, at storage voltage (half charge).
The results (speed-wise) were VERY disapointing......13 mph....yup, that's it.
It seems faster, but it's got to be the high tourque of the motors accelerating hard under lipo power creating the illusion.
They were VERY strong and tourqey, despite being tired. I suspect that a new set, with the proper reverse rotation motor would net around 15 mph......maybe......
Update 7/21/13
Freshly broken-in e-revo motors (rear motor is reverse rotation) gave a top speed of 17mph on 4S lipo


Then came what we all wanted to see:

Titan monster 550's on 6S lipo!!! \:D/

Yup, hooked it all up, listened to the 6 beeps.......and hit the trigger:
..........19 mph :cry: ..........say wah?!?.......take two........19 mph........ :-s

[youtube]3GtvRIPHm2Y[/youtube]

Bushings were getting noisey, went and got some oil...........and........

20 MPH!!!!! ........... \:D/ .............. :| ........... [-( ..... :-k

Okay, well not as fast as I would have liked, but in the 20's, even if just barely, was an acceptable range for me.

[youtube]j-MOjf0D09M[/youtube]

Put my GPS away, put the body on it, and decided to try it out. :D
Blasted down the driveway.....cut across the grass.......hit a jump........
Got a whopping foot-and-a-half (LOL) of air, landed badly and broke a knuckle. :roll:

[youtube]Kz3tJvYBlTw[/youtube]

Ran it for a few more minutes anyways (was kinda' mad at the time) and the rear motor fried. The front overheated and smoked some, but survived okay. So I got maybe 5 minutes total run-time (including testing) out of this, and I had like 20 minutes of runtime like this from tesing the previous day (no GPS or camera). The motors were fine after the initial test which was just easy running around the yard, but once I started running it hard, the rear motor smoked badly in a hurry. The brushes melted right off the springs and the fan while intact, melted off the rotor.
_________________________________________________________________

So, what to take from all this?

Well, if you want a back-yard basher type clod and want dependability and power, but can live with moderate (fast for a clod) speeds, the evx-2 and titan combo is pretty hard to beat.

If you want fast brushed power, and can live with frequent motor changes, 540's in the 19-13 turn range on 3S lipo will get you there. You should expect 20-30 mph depending on conditions and batteries, but 20-25 is more realistic.

YOU CAN NOT HAVE BOTH, YOU MUST PICK ONE OR THE OTHER.
(or go brushless, but that has it's pitfalls too) (you break even more parts LOL)

I could not believe that tossing 6S at the titans did not result in faster speeds. These motors were made to run 4S or 16.8v nimh, and it really showed.
New motors would add a few mph, but that is it. I also suspect that if I had the reverse rotation motor the rear would have lasted longer, but even the front one that see's less load was smoking, so they just can't take 6S for long.....less so I think than the 540's take 3S, but the 540's are FASTER on 3S than the 550's are on 6S.

__________________________________________________________________

Update: 3/29/13

I have been experimenting with the stock "silver can" (brushed) motors and a mamba max pro brushless esc. It was brought to my attention that a few people were using 4S lipo with the stock cans, and I decided to try it in my mostly stock clod.

This worked really well!! :D
But since I was running my clod under heavy load (and trigger finger) in the snow, it proved to be very hard on the motors and I burnt a pair out in short order.

I got a new pair of motors and noticed that thier brushes were wearing down REALLY fast. :shock:
I then dropped down to 3S lipo, and this has proven to be the sweet-spot for me, with hard-running of the clod. I have put a lot of runs on the motors since then. They are still hanging in there. I actually expected them to fail several runs ago....but nope....not yet.

Stats:
On 4S lipo, with stock gearing on a hard-packed snow covered road: 16 mph
On 3S lipo, with stock gearing on a hard-packed snow covered road: 13-14 mph
I will get better #'s once the snow melts and the road firms up some.
Speeds were measured with a garmin nuvi GPS.

Regardless, these #'s show that the silver cans are a viable alternative to the titans.

****************************************************************

Update 5/2/13
Test results using stock 27t tamiya motors in a stock-ish clod.
(esc used was a mamba max pro)

2S = 11 mph
3S= 16 mph
4S= 20 mph

Yup, you read that right, 20 mph with a stock-motored (and stock geared) clod buster! :mrgreen:

[youtube]ZrnkWLj9peY[/youtube]
Last edited by andymac0035 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 pm

part 3, Dual brushless systems:
__________________________________________________________________

Brushless combo's I have tried:

Hobbywing ezrun 60A esc's and tacon 3200kv motors
Traxxas VXL3 and velineon 3500kv motors
Castle creations SV2 esc's and castle CM-36 6900kv motors

__________________________________________________________________
Budhatrain wrote:Concerning ezrun motors... make sure you get ones that motors end with ".5" Like the 60amp ezrun combo that comes with a 5.5T, 6000kv motor. Or the 60amp ezrun combo that comes with the 8.5T 4000kv motor. Both of these motors are true 540can motors. As opposed to the 60amp ezrun combo 9t 4300kv motor. These motors are 380 sized motors in the can of a 540 and will have that appearance. You can always tell these ones from hobbywing because they will have fins on the can whereas the true 540 cans don't have fins.
__________________________________________________________________

Going dual brushless in a clod buster is a double-edged sword. You are going to love the power it delivers, and you are going to break parts a LOT more often. You are also going to have to enter the world of lipo batteries as well. It is possible to run some systems on nimh batteries, but honestly, that is such a waste AND your performance is going to suffer a lot, not to mention the wieght penalty.

One thing to be aware of is the small bearings in the gearcases, these need to be checked regularly....or go back to bronze bushings. I am not kidding, I saw both my axles saw-tooth gears because of this..... :shock:
(this was running the higher powered BL set-ups)

Going dual brushless, means just that..... 2 motors.....and 2 esc's.....meaning 2 complete brushless systems.
You can NOT run 2 brushless motors off of a single esc. I'm not going to get into the why's and how's of it at this time, just know that going brushless with a clod buster means 2 motors and 2 esc's.
__________________________________________________________________

I entered the world of Dual brushless with someone else's un-finished CPE terminator project. This included a pair of hobbywing 60A esc's and tacon 3200kv motors.

Shown here with the electronics all laid out. Going dual brushless means having a LOT of wires to tidy up.
*Note- Make sure you get them both going in the same direction!.... :shock:
100_2355.JPG
100_2355.JPG (210.73 KiB) Viewed 23611 times
I chose to disable one of the BEC's by clipping ONE red wire on the servo Y-harness I used. I later found out that it was un-neccesary with hobbywing esc's.... :roll:
(with some esc's this is nessesary...to keep the pair from "fighting" with each other)
100_2357.JPG
100_2357.JPG (213.61 KiB) Viewed 23611 times

Also note the battery Y-harness that I made, this was a single battery set-up.
Both BL systems are running off of the same 2S lipo battery.
100_2358.JPG
100_2358.JPG (210.79 KiB) Viewed 23611 times
100_2359.JPG
100_2359.JPG (176.55 KiB) Viewed 23611 times
100_2360.JPG
100_2360.JPG (213.37 KiB) Viewed 23611 times
Here it is running on 2S lipo:
[youtube]LCFxZEhP3TI[/youtube]


Bench testing is the best way to get it all calibrated (also make sure the settings on both esc's are the same). Lay out your esc's and motors, and hook them all up to your radio and battery. This way before you go through the trouble of installing/fitting all that mess of wires into your clod......you will know it's already working correctly. You will need to make a Y-adaptor for plugging your battey into both esc's (if using a single battery). You will also need a servo Y-harness for plugging both esc's into the reciever....UNLESS....you have a 3-channel (or more) radio that allows mixing of the throttle and auxilliary channels. (this is especially important if running castle SV2 esc's) (more on that later).

_________________________________________________________________

The simple way.........dual traxxas velinion, or VXL systems:
Shown here on a clodzilla II, these can be fitted fairly easily to must any clod chassis (even the stock one).
Image
Image


These are great, because they are WATERPROOF!.....and also because they are simple.....they are also a pain for the same reason....No tuning options.
Make sure you use a radio that will let you tone down your braking percentage, or everytime you hit the brakes hard.....you will be snapping gear teeth.

I ran this set-up on 3S, on a single battery, and with the rear esc's bec disconnected. My reasoning was that making the front esc run the rx and sevo, helped even the load out since the rear system/motor always works harder on a clod. With the VXL's, this proved to work very well.
When you see the truck "slowly" going over the snow......it's treading snow (like treading water).....as that's full throttle.....with a clod that normally goes 28-30 mph on hard ground.....and unlike my high-powered brushed set-ups that would burn out after a few runs like this.....this set-up would take this abuse all day long.
[youtube]dTQxhRibTyg[/youtube]

And here is what they do on dry ground, (in my modded super clod).
At these speeds, you can see where you might start breaking stuff.......often! :shock:
[youtube]-Pnorxao6T4[/youtube]

__________________________________________________________________

Going to extreme's:
Castle creations sidewinder SV2 esc's and CM-36 6900kv motors.
(run on dual 2S, one per combo)

The newer SV2 version of the sidewinder from castle creations has proven a bit testy to get working when used in pairs with a servo Y-harness. I knew this going in due to reading of all the troubles other's have had. My solution, since I had provisions for dual batteries in my chassis, was to just run a battery for each motor/esc combo. Some people like using an H-harness to equalize ther power draw on the 2 batteries (remember, the rear system has a higher load on it). I tried it, didn't like it (too many extra connections/power loss). I got used to how long my truck would run.....and swapped the batteries around at the halfway mark.

Image

This ultimitly lead to the demise of my mod-clod, as it was completely over-powered, but I had a lot of fun along the way...... :mrgreen:

Image

These were early vids.....I was still getting used to the power.
[youtube]29VfZ9_4b3k[/youtube] [youtube]Nbjs_6nKhBY[/youtube]
[youtube]Ot0buDOgR1k[/youtube] [youtube]pPC7k0lbnM4[/youtube]

Speed-runs......with a mod-clod.......and no swaybars...... :shock:
[youtube]23QMvaQ2yZY[/youtube]

Ultimatley, it was not the speed......but rather the altitude off of ramps that the speed would deliver, that got me. I just could not stop from doing stuff like this.....it's addictive.
Image


There are ways to get around using dual batts with SV2's:
Budhatrain wrote:FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY... just shy of two years later. I finally have corrected the cogging issues with these SV2 sidewinder esc with a single 2S lipo. I have heard rumors on how to fix it but I just didn't trust it... until tonight.

I picked up a Spektrum Dx3C radio (for $75)... this is a cheap entry level model that holds 20 models AND is able to mix the throttle channel with the aux channel. My other radio, Spektrum Dx3S didn't do this (so sad).

I put the new radio to the test... I jumped on the computer and downgraded the firmware of the escs to 1.30beta. Then I removed my y-harness for the two escs and plugged one into the throttle channel and the second into aux channel. Rebind the system to the new radio, set up the mixing function on the radio and NO COGGING- Halellujah, AMEN, class dismissed!

I am super excited and feel like I can close this chapter in my life. I can once again support Castle and their new efforts- I just wish they would maybe address this issue properly but beggers can't be choosers.
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 pm

part 4, Batteries and accessories:
__________________________________________________________________

I have had the best luck using turnigy and gens ace lipo's.
I use the plain (not nano) turnigies that hobbyking sells, great bang for the buck!
Gens ace comes from hobbypartz, as does the "blue" lipo series, I have both, I like em'.
I have venom lipo's as well, they are okay, but don't seem to last as long, and cost more too.

__________________________________________________________________
Budhatrain wrote:When running a dual brushless system on a single 2s lipo generally you don't want to use a battery with less than a 30C discharge rate. Most people land at 40C or higher. You need to have available in an instant the amount of juice both systems might take at launch.

Personally I have been using Gens Ace Hard Case lipos with the direct plug... I say direct plug because they sell ones where the battery leads and balance taps use a bullet plug into the case- I find that these where out quickly. The direct style is better for what I use them for (jumping bashing carnage).
__________________________________________________________________


Connectors:
__________________________________________________________________

Most people use either deans or traxxas style battery connectors.
This is stricktly personal preference, they are BOTH good.
There is no conductivity advantage either way.

I like the traxxas connectors, they are bigger and (I think) easier to pull apart.
I also think they are easer to solder as well.
Last edited by andymac0035 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:56 am

All three main sections done!

The last section is for misc stuff like connectors and whatever lipo's everyone likes to use in thier clods.
So anything you feel is note worthy.......feel free to post it up.


Also, post up any proven power combo's you feel should be added to the first three sections.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by FlashGordon1 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:15 am

I like this thread Andy 500% =D>
Now hear comes the question. As you know that I am using the 60A esc's from hobbywing as a dual set up. Now to merry the two esc's,I am using item from tower :arrow: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wt ... LXPTT6&P=K
Now is it true or not.For every connector I use,would I lose power? If so do I need to dump this connector? I am using this video from you tube as an example :arrow:

[youtube]N8_ThXhr9WE[/youtube]

Now could I just solder both positive wires and both negative wires,to the dean connector? Red to + dean then black to - dean. I hope that I am not losing confusing you.
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by FlashGordon1 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:29 am

I also noticed when I did turn on one esc,both fans are running. Even when the other esc is turned off. Is that post to be normal? And could you show a pic,so I won't cut the wrong wire ](*,)
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Budhatrain
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by Budhatrain » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:35 am

Flash it is true that you loose power per connection that you go through but with that plug you picked you will probably never notice it (i dont and i run that on every clod i have). I wouldnt direct soldier because what if you change systems or need to break up the pair down the road. For the insignificant power loss it's really not a big deal.

The big thing with the dual hobbywing esc if running together be sure to remove 1 red wire from one of the esc leads. If using a y-harness just do this on the y- harness. In both cases (on harness or esc plug) you do not need to snip the wire just use a pin and remove the individual red plug from the plug shroud. Very easy and reversible.

***Note that disconnecting the red wire is not true for every system. With ezrun systems you have to do it... with castle systems you do not (but if you do it's not a big deal). When in doubt I disconnect.
Last edited by Budhatrain on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Budhatrain
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by Budhatrain » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:36 am

Concerning batteries... when running a dual brushless system on a single 2s lipo generally you don't want to use a battery with less than a 30C discharge rate. Most people land at 40C or higher. You need to have available in an instant the amount of juice both systems might take at launch.

Personally I have been using Gens Ace Hard Case lipos with the direct plug... I say direct plug because they sell ones where the battery leads and balance taps use a bullet plug into the case- I find that these where out quickly. The direct style is better for what I use them for (jumping bashing carnage).


Most carpet racing guys either use systems with 4600kv motors or the 5700kv motors. The 3800KV motors are poo poo slow so you need to gear up and advance the timing and even then- poop. Always judge what you want and need with temp of motor, esc and battery. Heat (to hot to touch) will always do damage in all three circumstances.



Concerning ezrun motors... make sure you get ones that motors end with ".5" Like the 60amp ezrun combo that comes with a 5.5T, 6000kv motor. Or the 60amp ezrun combo that comes with the 8.5T 4000kv motor. Both of these motors are true 540can motors. As opposed to the 60amp ezrun combo 9t 4300kv motor. These motors are 380 sized motors in the can of a 540 and will have that appearance. You can always tell these ones from hobbywing because they will have fins on the can whereas the true 540 cans don't have fins.


A lot of people talk about upgrading the internal gears because you are running brushless power. From my experience and the testimony of many others the stock gears in the clodbusters hold up the best. The deal is when you land from a jump under full throttle this is when you can do damage. A lot of people will not experience breakdown and if you do- they are cheap to replace. The aluminum pinion gears on the other hand wears out quickly... it's best to change these out when you add brushless sytems- I suggest robinson racing 13T gears. You can always go bigger in your pinion but anything not 13T you will need an adjustable motor mount. The 13T with 4600kv motor or even 5700kv motors are just fine from my experience.


Hope this helps a little... keep what you want and delete the rest.
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:57 am

Thanks for adding to the thread Mike. :D

On the 60A EZ-runs, I have run those with both bec's hooked up and they were fine.
Just like the castle's, you just switch them both on at the same time.
They do work with just one BEC as well, as you mentioned.

I agree 100% on the direct connect batts being better.
__________________________________________________________________

Hey Flash, that vid you posted is a bad example for you to be looking at. That is a single motor/esc combo being set-up for 2 lipo's in series.

You are trying to do the opposite......your trying to set up 2 esc's in parellel with one battery.
You basically want to take (or make) a parellel connector, and swap the female connector for a male connector, and then swap the 2 male connectors for female one's.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by Budhatrain » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:07 pm

Just a word of caution about Duratrax element (castle) esc... I just picked up a couple thinking this is a potential way to go. They can be adjusted using the castle link ect... and for all intents and purposes they are castle esc. The BIG problem that I see and have tested is that you CANNOT use the 1.30 firmware (at least the two that I had, did not have the option, only 1.33 and 1.38beta). As a result even with mixing the throttle channel and aux, you get some cogging issues that are no good when it comes to side-by-side racing. Of course this is when running dual esc with a single 2s lipo battery.
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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by Tink-Tink » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:51 pm

Dumb question, but what is a H harness, diagram or pics?

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by andymac0035 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:30 am

An "H" harness (not to be confused with a "Y" harness)....... :)

An "H" harness is used for balancing the load on a pair of batteries used on a pair of esc's to try and keep them even as much as possible. It is placed between both sets of batts and esc's in the same manner as a short extension,... BUT, the positive wires are connected to each other, and likewise the negative wires are connected to each other.

Usually this is done by exposing some wire on each positive lead and then using a very short piece of wire (soldered) to connect both wires together (the same is then done for the negative wires). It makes an "H" looking shape, hence the name. Only connect like-polarity wires to each other! :shock:

So..... say you have a dual brushess clod wired up like this with an "H" harness. The rear esc and motor is under more load and will draw more current, in effect draining it's battery out sooner than the front esc would, as it's under less load and drawing less power. The theory here is that since the 2 battieries are cross-connected, as the rear battery gets asked for more power....some of it will be drawn from the front battery, so that both batts will stay fairly even with each other as they discharge.

It works much like the H-pipe in the exhuast of a sports car or muscle car.

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Re: Clod Buster Powertrain Options

Post by ClodMonster » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:57 am

Does this double the voltage or mah in anyway?

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