What should go into a racing clod? (new lid - 10 dec)

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BloodClod
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What should go into a racing clod? (new lid - 10 dec)

Post by BloodClod » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:04 pm

Hey guys,

It's been a long time since I worked on a monster truck but I've recently bought a bullhead... then read some forums... then watched some videos... and one thing led to another and I'm itching to build a racing clod. Used to run a Ripper with some 17x2s but now I'm thinking of going brushless!

So my question is what are racing clods build like now? Any info would be great!

for example...
- should I get a ball diff? Front, rear or both?
- what brushless motor should I run - 6turn, 8turn, etc?
- what kind of gearing should I go for?
- should I go for some aluminum axle tubes, etc?
- what kind of tires, foams, etc. would be a good start?

I will be running this on our local dirt track if that helps. :)

Thanks in advance!
... was once the totalitarian admin here trying to be god...

BloodClod
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website: http://www.cool.per.sg/bloodclod

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132NHAF
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by 132NHAF » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 pm

Hey Look, it's a new guy.. :D

Holy Cow Buddy, you have been seriously lacking in your Mod duties. So bad that we had to let that guy Andy help out. Who knows how bad this can get???? :lol:

You still overseas?
Scott T

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Budhatrain
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Budhatrain » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:17 pm

BloodClod wrote:Hey guys,

It's been a long time since I worked on a monster truck but I've recently bought a bullhead... then read some forums... then watched some videos... and one thing led to another and I'm itching to build a racing clod. Used to run a Ripper with some 17x2s but now I'm thinking of going brushless!

So my question is what are racing clods build like now? Any info would be great!

for example...
- should I get a ball diff? Front, rear or both?
- what brushless motor should I run - 6turn, 8turn, etc?
- what kind of gearing should I go for?
- should I go for some aluminum axle tubes, etc?
- what kind of tires, foams, etc. would be a good start?

I will be running this on our local dirt track if that helps. :)

Thanks in advance!
Readily available chassis will be from CPE (crawfordperformanceengineering) or ZRP (stangnomore). These two guys will provide you with the best support and immediate customer service.

I don't run a ball diff and really don't hear of too many people running ball diffs. The ones that I do hear from say that they are a pain and you really have to tighten them down. So I don't see the need for them.

As far as brushless motors go... On average people stay between 4600-5700kv motors. It's not unheard of to go higher, you just need to watch out for motor temps above 6000kv. I have an ezrun setup that is a 5.5T running at 6000kv. The rest of my four clods all run castle creations and are either 4600 or 5700. Personally I like the 5700 units for speed.

Stock gearing! Stock plastic gears with a 13T pinion. No wasting money on adjustable motor mounts or aluminum gears. The pinion gear should be changed out to like a robinson racing because the stock aluminum wear out quickly.

Aluminum axle tubes and steering hubs are mostly preference. I don't see the need for them but I see a good amount of people running them. I guess if I ever fell into a wind fall of broken axle tubes I might change my mind but I think I have only changed 3 of them. I see them more for bling bling personally but I have never tried them- so I might be wrong.

My favorite tires are as follows... Imex Pullers (no foams), Imex Bajas (no foams), rc4wd rumbles (foams). All of these are in stock.

Here are somethings you didn't ask... I would pick up at least one set of CVD's for the front steering, these combined with the steering hub mod will give you the most steering potential. Lock out the rear and the rear ones can stay stock... but know that CVD's will add 1/8 in to your front width. To me, the steering servo mount is critical... I like the ZRP BTA setup for a number of reasons: The position of the servo means the servo arm cannot hit your motor. This particular steering mounts in three locations on the axle case and axle tube- this will not move, ever. The mount itself is all aluminum and you can secure your screws right into it without the need for additional hardware- just blue loctite. Concerning the servo... get a high torque titanium geared servo with a fast transit time and you can run them without servo savers- if only racing on carpet, if racing outside always use a servo saver. I use a savox 1258TG. Only thing with this is that its a power hungry hog, so at least run a glitch buster capacitor in your receiver or wire in an external bec. Finally, gotta run lipo batteries (single battery)! With a minimum of 30C discharge rate. You can very easily run 50C or now 65C and above for the same price (these will give you a little more punch off the line).

Having said all that, its exciting to know that Brett from CPE carries all three tires and CVD's. Also his carbon terminator racing chassis is rock bottom pricing- great proven racing platform.

ZRP (stangnomore) has in stock his diablo chassis, axle braces and steering mounts. I prefer these chassis for a number of reasons, they are more expensive, but have their advantages.

If money wasn't an issue and I wanted to build from scratch a race clod, this is what I would do:

Clod racing chassis
BTA steering
Steering hub mod
CVDS
High Torgue Titanium gear servo
Glitch Buster Capacitor
Imex Puller Tires
TXT wheels and hubs (these combined with cvd's give you a wide stance)
Dual Brushless ESC and Motor
Robinson Racing 13T pinions
Good Radio equipment with the option to mix throttle and aux channels
Lipo Battery 5000mah 2s 50C hardcase
shocks
Sweet Custom Painted lid always makes you go faster!

Feel free to pm me on specifics! Hope this helps...
Need Screws?! Check out Screw Loose Hex Head Hardware here at Clodtalk or go to http://screwloosehardware.com

Team Driver for 2 great companies, visit http://www.cowrc.com and http://store.rc4wd.com/

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andymac0035
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by andymac0035 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:42 pm

^^^ Now that info right there has sticky potential I think.

BloodClod
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by BloodClod » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:09 pm

132NHAF wrote:Hey Look, it's a new guy.. :D

Holy Cow Buddy, you have been seriously lacking in your Mod duties. So bad that we had to let that guy Andy help out. Who knows how bad this can get???? :lol:

You still overseas?
Hey there ol' buddy ol' pal!

Didn't you guys get the memo that I'd be taking my much earned vacation? :)

I'm still in good old Singapore. Actually run a local hobby track and shop now on the side! How things change!
... was once the totalitarian admin here trying to be god...

BloodClod
email: bloodclod@hotmail.com
website: http://www.cool.per.sg/bloodclod

BloodClod
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by BloodClod » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Budhatrain wrote:
BloodClod wrote:Hey guys,

It's been a long time since I worked on a monster truck but I've recently bought a bullhead... then read some forums... then watched some videos... and one thing led to another and I'm itching to build a racing clod. Used to run a Ripper with some 17x2s but now I'm thinking of going brushless!

So my question is what are racing clods build like now? Any info would be great!

for example...
- should I get a ball diff? Front, rear or both?
- what brushless motor should I run - 6turn, 8turn, etc?
- what kind of gearing should I go for?
- should I go for some aluminum axle tubes, etc?
- what kind of tires, foams, etc. would be a good start?

I will be running this on our local dirt track if that helps. :)

Thanks in advance!
Readily available chassis will be from CPE (crawfordperformanceengineering) or ZRP (stangnomore). These two guys will provide you with the best support and immediate customer service.

I don't run a ball diff and really don't hear of too many people running ball diffs. The ones that I do hear from say that they are a pain and you really have to tighten them down. So I don't see the need for them.

As far as brushless motors go... On average people stay between 4600-5700kv motors. It's not unheard of to go higher, you just need to watch out for motor temps above 6000kv. I have an ezrun setup that is a 5.5T running at 6000kv. The rest of my four clods all run castle creations and are either 4600 or 5700. Personally I like the 5700 units for speed.

Stock gearing! Stock plastic gears with a 13T pinion. No wasting money on adjustable motor mounts or aluminum gears. The pinion gear should be changed out to like a robinson racing because the stock aluminum wear out quickly.

Aluminum axle tubes and steering hubs are mostly preference. I don't see the need for them but I see a good amount of people running them. I guess if I ever fell into a wind fall of broken axle tubes I might change my mind but I think I have only changed 3 of them. I see them more for bling bling personally but I have never tried them- so I might be wrong.

My favorite tires are as follows... Imex Pullers (no foams), Imex Bajas (no foams), rc4wd rumbles (foams). All of these are in stock.

Here are somethings you didn't ask... I would pick up at least one set of CVD's for the front steering, these combined with the steering hub mod will give you the most steering potential. Lock out the rear and the rear ones can stay stock... but know that CVD's will add 1/8 in to your front width. To me, the steering servo mount is critical... I like the ZRP BTA setup for a number of reasons: The position of the servo means the servo arm cannot hit your motor. This particular steering mounts in three locations on the axle case and axle tube- this will not move, ever. The mount itself is all aluminum and you can secure your screws right into it without the need for additional hardware- just blue loctite. Concerning the servo... get a high torque titanium geared servo with a fast transit time and you can run them without servo savers- if only racing on carpet, if racing outside always use a servo saver. I use a savox 1258TG. Only thing with this is that its a power hungry hog, so at least run a glitch buster capacitor in your receiver or wire in an external bec. Finally, gotta run lipo batteries (single battery)! With a minimum of 30C discharge rate. You can very easily run 50C or now 65C and above for the same price (these will give you a little more punch off the line).

Having said all that, its exciting to know that Brett from CPE carries all three tires and CVD's. Also his carbon terminator racing chassis is rock bottom pricing- great proven racing platform.

ZRP (stangnomore) has in stock his diablo chassis, axle braces and steering mounts. I prefer these chassis for a number of reasons, they are more expensive, but have their advantages.

If money wasn't an issue and I wanted to build from scratch a race clod, this is what I would do:

Clod racing chassis
BTA steering
Steering hub mod
CVDS
High Torgue Titanium gear servo
Glitch Buster Capacitor
Imex Puller Tires
TXT wheels and hubs (these combined with cvd's give you a wide stance)
Dual Brushless ESC and Motor
Robinson Racing 13T pinions
Good Radio equipment with the option to mix throttle and aux channels
Lipo Battery 5000mah 2s 50C hardcase
shocks
Sweet Custom Painted lid always makes you go faster!

Feel free to pm me on specifics! Hope this helps...
Super helpful and informative post there Budhatrain!

I've already dropped both CPE and ZRP an email! :)

Additional question. I have a set of IMEX pullers from WAY BACK and the tire compound doesn't seem very soft or grippy. To be honest they are quite hard and nothing like the modern day buggy tires or even stock clod tires - are the ones currently available softer? I do have a set of MAXX sized bajas and the compound is so much softer - much like the modern racing buggy tires I race. So I'm leaning to a set of IMEX bajas - will they work well on dirt? On the CPE site it seems to state they are suited for carpet...

Thanks again for the awesome post.
... was once the totalitarian admin here trying to be god...

BloodClod
email: bloodclod@hotmail.com
website: http://www.cool.per.sg/bloodclod

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Budhatrain
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Budhatrain » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:41 am

^ without seeing them I couldn't tell you... over time tires do have a tendency to get harder, slippery and plasticy. Pullers and Bajas are used a lot for carpet.

If you are looking for grass and dirt... out of the three I would go with the rc4wd Rumbles. They are great tires, look awesome and come with foams. Of course you can go old school and shave stock clod tires- they work great! But watch out for black lung HAHA

Talked to Jon from ZRP today, told me about your back and forth through email. Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Need Screws?! Check out Screw Loose Hex Head Hardware here at Clodtalk or go to http://screwloosehardware.com

Team Driver for 2 great companies, visit http://www.cowrc.com and http://store.rc4wd.com/

BloodClod
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by BloodClod » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:16 pm

Thanks for the recommendation - what's the difference between the Rumbles and the B&H tires? I'm thinking the Rumbles are newer, lighter versions of the B&H?

One other question - the front CVDs add a total of 1/2" to the front track. Do you guys do anything to bring the rear track up to the same width? Perhaps some wideners of some sort?

What's the typical widths that you guys are running at? :)

Here's the last (jugg-based) racing truck I built a long long time ago...

Image
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todd ritchings
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by todd ritchings » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:27 pm

What chassis is that?

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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Kingclod27 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:29 pm

todd ritchings wrote:What chassis is that?
Looks similar to the Definance TXT/Jugg race chassis.
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Budhatrain
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Budhatrain » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:36 pm

You are right about the b&h... They were the first attempt at this type of tire and the demensions were just a little big and beefy. They are a nice tire themselves maybe better suited for outdoors, but the rumbles are right on the money. If the size isn't an issue (which for sanctioned nr/ctpa races they were) the b&h are a good choice too.

Concerning width, 1/2 -3/4 inch is good. I have found that Cvds with txt hub adapters + txt wheels = good acceptable width. So what I do is run Cvds axle upgrade front and back to be consistent (bolts hardware look ect). You used to be able to pick up straight axle upgrade made by the same companies and were about $20-30 cheaper than 2 sets of Cvds- you just can't find straight axles. In my opinion the Cvds are such a quality axle upgrade that I do both front and rear. You can mix and match wheel widener sets to offset just a single front cvd. I tried this once, I ended up having to buy two sets to do this and in the end I wish I would have just bought another set. Brett at Cpe sells various sets and maybe he will allow you to mix and match so you only buy one set. I can't say for sure. I did find that the wheel wideners do add weight to rotating mass- therefor I don't have the extra weight and go with Cvds + txt hubs + txt wheels.
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Kingclod27 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:41 pm

The newer Rumbles are bigger than the gen 1 Rumbles so it should meet all racing league requirements
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by BloodClod » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:31 am

todd ritchings wrote:What chassis is that?
It's a custom chassis I designed and machined myself. Actually allows the center transmission to be run upside down or rightside up. :)

The chassis also allows the suspension mounts to be moved to multiple positions for adjustment.
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by BloodClod » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:25 pm

Okay thanks to the excellent advice I have been given I've some parts on order. :)

Next questions:

- what's the best way to wire 2 brushless ESCs together. I intend to run 2 sensored systems... maybe twin 7.5Ts?
- what kind of damping do you guys use on these racing trucks as a baseline and are big bore shocks preferred? My thoughts are that even though these trucks are big and heavy, the actual sprung weight is actually quite little so regular 3.5" buggy shocks with some typical buggy damping (say 30-35wt) might be a good start? Do guys typically run softer rear springs too?
- I noticed some awesome shaved tires here where the heights of the lugs have been shortened. I think these make the tires softer and lighter and should improve performance significantly. Is this done via a good ol' fashion dremel and a LOT OF WORK? Or is there a more efficient way to get these done?

Thanks!
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Budhatrain
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Re: What should go into a racing clod?

Post by Budhatrain » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:51 pm

Two ways for your dual esc... use a y-harness (sometimes, depending on the esc you have to remove one red wire so that the internal bec's don't not interfere with one another). Or you can channel mix from your radio (if you have a three channel radio and this is something you can do), mix (slave) your aux channel with your throttle channel. You have to do the latter if you are going to use Castle Creations newer Sidewinder units (currently you need to run the 1.30 beta firmware too- easy to do and worth it). If you don't do that with the newer sidewinders (Sv2) you will experience cogging while using a single 2s lipo battery. With the battery- just buy or build a parallel plug.

Springs and Shocks- you are right about the lighter springs. I have used two different kinds: Front Traxxas Jato Shocks with white springs and pink band. Recently I have been picking up front ***sct shocks from Losi (lots of spring options here too- I like the stock silver springs but want to adjust softer soon). So something in the ballpark of 85mm-95mm shocks. A lot of people use the proline powerstroke shocks for traxxas slash's front shocks. Another one that people are using are these babies http://www.ebay.com/itm/120918094026?ss ... 1423.l2649. I personally run all the same spring weights for all four corners but that's total preference.

As far as weight goes... a good friend of mine actually starts at 50wt oil.

No way around shaving... sandpaper or dremel with a facemask and lots of time. good luck!
Need Screws?! Check out Screw Loose Hex Head Hardware here at Clodtalk or go to http://screwloosehardware.com

Team Driver for 2 great companies, visit http://www.cowrc.com and http://store.rc4wd.com/

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