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Halgar
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Post by Halgar » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:28 pm

mnstrbetle wrote:LOL...research and development...to play with toys, and then have the balls to charge for it.


Someone has got too much time on their hands :roll:
We'll remember that when you sell off one of your rigs.

From a business perspective, R&D eats up large amounts of time and resources, even for this "stick" and a couple bolts. Even if the designers had a good idea of what they wanted to make, the'd have still had to cad it out, and have access to the machinery to mill the components, plus buy the raw materials.

Maybe a good example to use would be Mark Filipowicz and his "Bad Monkey Jr." http://www.marksmark.net/jr.htm
RCAA wrote:Mark decided to design and build an RC vehicle from scratch, drawing on his experience in full-size 4-wheeling. His truck started as an idea on January 4, 1999, and by January 2000, it was a reality.

Mark designed each of the more than 200 custom parts using state-of-the-art CAD (computer-aided design) software, and he manufactured them one at a time using many highly sophisticated commercial machines. The long list of details that went into the conception and realization of this project could fill volumes; we don't have nearly enough pages to give you the year-long play-by-play, but our Reader's Digest version still captures the key points of this most incredible project. Dig in!
Let's see, a machinist, who gets paid $30 or $40 an hour that spends a year designing and machining parts, uses a multi-million dollar machine shop, aircraft grade aluminum and titanium stock. and produces ONE r/c proto-type. What's that worth? By Marks own accounts, about $40,000.

Just something to keep in mind when you guys look at that "stick" and say it ain't worth it. You don't like it? Then don't buy it. Heck, everyone here was ragging on Toyo when he developed the Bulu chassis, but after seeing it perform, everyone started drooling over it. Everyone said "I can do that", well, Toyo is the only one who did, and those who can't or don't want to build thier own stuff thank innovators like Toyo, Mark, and the guys who designed the "stick".
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

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Big Schott
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Post by Big Schott » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:55 pm

Don't get me wrong... I think this thing is Cool as HELL!! :D
I just have a problem with the $230.00 price tag. I mean a TTR (carbon fiber) ripper is in that price range and that thing is SICK!! and I can't make a carbon fiber chassie like that.

I would like to see some of the people of CT make the walking stick and have a price tag and how long it took to make it.

mnstrbetle
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Post by mnstrbetle » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:00 pm

...
Hurricanes...earthquakes...tsunamis...tornadoes....No Thanks, I'll take a snow storm any day.

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Krod Clod
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Post by Krod Clod » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:30 pm

Depending on what they use for the heim joints on the ends...and the type of aluminum used throughout....you ARE looking at a materials cost...certainly more than 23 bucks. :lol:

Heim joints are around $21 for 1 of this (roughly) size...
http://www.stockcarproducts.com/rodend7.htm

Aluminum rod is fairly cheap, but to buy enough of it to PRODUCE a built chassis...you look at some $$ there....

add in small things like rod ends, 1/4" rod for the links, mounting plates, CNC time, the bolts....etc....to have a complete chassis, you ARE talking about $100 just in parts alone, leaving out the machine time to turn all the parts.


bottom line...dont like it...dont buy it.

I had issues with toyo's Bulu I chassis and its price tag, but that was a PROTOTYPE!! the new bulu II's definately justify the price. The stick is not a prototype chassis (they actually make them).

lol this is Hilarious..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Acurabat
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Post by Acurabat » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:45 pm

Most probably want their chassis looking like chassis, trucks looking like trucks, crawlers looking like crawlers...etc. Instead of a stick with axles on each end, oh yeah and its going to cost ya $229.

The topic creator didn't even ask about this stick. A crawler salesman invaded the topic to sell/promote the product. Are they surprised that some are going to have comments and questions? Did they not see that it was a possiblity that these comments wouldn't be so nice? After all, you did jump in here and show a stick that costs $229.

Oh yes, we all like to get back of what our stuff is worth. Whatever story or special techniques it took to build this...are people suppose to care about that? I guess this can never be built unless you have those high tech high dollar machines.

xiage965
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Great point...

Post by xiage965 » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:52 pm

Hey acurabat. Great point. This thread has gotten totally off topic. If ya'll want to help me out, you could suggest whether I go with the Gecko SWB, LWB 40/60 or LWB 50/50. I want to do a little bashing with the truck as well as some crawling, and one of the guys at RCGUY said the LWB would not be good at all for bashing. I don't think I'm going to compete in any contests, so keep that in mind. Thanks!

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Krod Clod
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Post by Krod Clod » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:34 pm

Go gecko II and be done if you plan to bash. 8)
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badhoopty
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Post by badhoopty » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:39 pm

if the stick was 150 so bucks i'd have one... imo its plain cool that it IS so dang simple of a design. i think i'll have one eventually even if it stays 200ish. its a very cool chassis imo.

i'm more of a scale guy so i'd much rather spend 300 bucks on something really cool and detailed that rolls at the drop of a hat instead of a stick that looks like it would walk up walls... :wink:

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Post by Toyofast » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am

Krod Clod wrote:...and the type of aluminum used throughout....you ARE looking at a materials cost...certainly more than 23 bucks. :lol:

Aluminum rod is fairly cheap, but to buy enough of it to PRODUCE a built chassis...you look at some $$ there....

I doubt that Kevin is using the normal cheap/weak aluminum normally found at the Home Depot or hardware store :wink:




Acurabat wrote:The topic creator didn't even ask about this stick. A crawler salesman invaded the topic to sell/promote the product. Are they surprised that some are going to have comments and questions? Did they not see that it was a possiblity that these comments wouldn't be so nice? After all, you did jump in here and show a stick that costs $229.

BTW, The TCS is not my product. It is Kevin's from The Crawler Store. He and I are both in the same bucket..... We are both trying to stay one step ahead of each other but we understand what it takes to build a crawler spec type setup. Especially one that will last in tough conditions. If I can help him, it'd make me happy.. as he has helped me sell things in the past.


Gecko II = $211 shipped.
Gecko I = $172 shipped.
TTR Rage = $170 + shipping.

He asked out what crawler chassis setup to get to keep his costs down. But if he were to do his homework he would have found out the same info as I did..... the prices are listed on the websites. Out of those 3, for keeping costs down and using it as a crawler, he'd have to pick the Gecko I. It is designed as a crawler, not a racer like the TTR Rage.

Does he think that this board would actually stick to what the original post would be about? CT has never been like that nor does any other board.

Acurabat wrote: Whatever story or special techniques it took to build this...are people suppose to care about that?

You must be the same person that I find blocking roads when I head up into the woods aren't you? You probably hate technology and how it works. Do you not care about how things are built? I'd be a much happier person if I knew that the business took their time to build a proper rig, rather than tossing parts together and selling it without knowing anything about it.

The TCS is a high dollar investment but hell, look at Aggy's list of RC's.... :D

The TCS does require you to buy/use special battery packs, either LiPo's or custom built NiHm. It is a competition based setup. The future of RC Crawling will go towards the TCS..... I guarentee it.




Dude... go buy the new setup that you want. Everyone has their own opinions about what to get....... You could always BUILT IT YOURSELF to really keep cost down :idea: Or you could always get Big Schott to build you one, he said it'd be under $50 and he can have it done in under a week.

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Krod Clod
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Post by Krod Clod » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:07 am

Toyofast wrote:
Krod Clod wrote:...and the type of aluminum used throughout....you ARE looking at a materials cost...certainly more than 23 bucks. :lol:

Aluminum rod is fairly cheap, but to buy enough of it to PRODUCE a built chassis...you look at some $$ there....

I doubt that Kevin is using the normal cheap/weak aluminum normally found at the Home Depot or hardware store :wink:
exactally 8) :D
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xiage965
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Post by xiage965 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:57 am

Toyo, just to let you know, I priced out all of those options already. I'm not that incapable. I'm just trying to find out what works the best for the price range I'm interested in and the type of running that I'll be doing. That's all.

Jarrod

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Acurabat
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Post by Acurabat » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:15 am

Forgot one thing, go with the Gecko :P

Toyofast, I like technology. I just believe people take many things for granted. But the problem of this chassis is....it does not look like its worth $229.

And I never said I didn't care how the chassis came about, or the time it took to develope it. I always appreciate the people taking their time making things, modding things, and doing other things their way. If I was a jerk and talked how great I am and trash talk about other people's rigs and creations, I would be hanging around at the rccrawler forums....jk :roll:

Looking at this chassis from someone elses perspective, they wouldn't realize just how much went into it. Are those people going to do research and find out how much time and money went into it? Do they really care about that? Too bad most wouldn't. Well I don't knock on that, and I appreciate that this chassis is different and it can also perform.

I just don't see anyone rushing out to get rid of their Geckos, Inets, V2, CX, Boyers, Bulu's or Rock Raider's :P (and the other millions out there) anytime soon for this $229 axles on a stick, regardless it will probably kick all these chassis's butts.

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Post by shagrat69 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:42 pm

Krod Clod wrote:
Toyofast wrote:
Krod Clod wrote:...and the type of aluminum used throughout....you ARE looking at a materials cost...certainly more than 23 bucks. :lol:

Aluminum rod is fairly cheap, but to buy enough of it to PRODUCE a built chassis...you look at some $$ there....

I doubt that Kevin is using the normal cheap/weak aluminum normally found at the Home Depot or hardware store :wink:
exactally 8) :D

um....i'm stayin out of this arguement as i belive in R&D and the costs of it. but i have to say that when you buy a SMALL quanity of matal stock (more then acouple feet) from a metal supply company. it's frigin cheap!!! so stop mentioning the cost of the metal stock please!!! and i AM speaking of high grade industial grade shizzle. :wink: so stick with the R&D and the labor time and machine shop time as your good reasons to charge what you charge. leave the whole materials cost out of it. it truely is only about $6-$10 worth of materials. but i can definitly see that major R&D has been put into the developement of the stick to get it to the awsome level it is today!!!! :wink: :D

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Post by mgtmania » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:26 am

I love my gecko 2. It performs great and looks awesome. That is my choice. And for the stick 6061 is 6061 no matter where you buy it. We aren't talking space shuttle stuff here it's a stick. It took a year to build that. I am a machinist and nothing on it is that difficult. It doesn't even look like anything. Where do you sit? I like my stuff to actually look like something.

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Krod Clod
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Post by Krod Clod » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:35 am

mgtmania wrote:I love my gecko 2........ Where do you sit?

Where do you sit on a gecko?? :? I want pics of this!!!! :lol: :lol: LMAO
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